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View Full Version : Northwood - Help needed beyond customer service dept. level ?



FF1063
08-06-2009, 04:13 PM
Realizing Ron Nash is no longer a player in day to day operations, who is the 'go to guy' now to solve a long standing repetitive warranty leak / delamination issue with my Arctic Fox camper ? I heard it was Ted Sinclair and sent him a short e-mail, but he has not responded.

Thanks

Kuma
08-06-2009, 04:28 PM
Call 1-800-RON-NASH and ask to speak with either Matt, Dave or Cody... Explain the problem, the background,then ask what you need to do next...

FF1063
08-06-2009, 04:43 PM
I've been dealing with Dave Mann for four years, very nice guy, but looking for the person with authority to get the job done.

ArcticFox275L
08-06-2009, 10:54 PM
Ron, what an interesting question........... Could be interesting (eye opening) to find out the Mgmnt structure....If anybody knows????

Good luck, Horst

Roaming around
08-10-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't know who it is but call Dave, if that is who you have been dealing with, and ask him for his supervisor. You don't need to explain, just insist on talking to him.

I learned in my former business that was equipment intensive that if you don't get results almost immediately, to go asap to the next higher level. After four years it is time. Just insist on it.

BigFoot
08-11-2009, 01:27 PM
FF1063 wrote:
I've been dealing with Dave Mann for four years, very nice guy, but looking for the person with authority to get the job done.

Dave can get the job done. He has treated me like royalty, both during and after my warranty, and he never ran to anyone for an okay; even withthe "more questionable" problems. Maybe youhave not had a meeting of the minds on a certain issue and you just need to start over.

Contrary to everything you and I have learned over ourlifetimes, when it comes to dealing with a person or abusiness, there is absolutely no need to lean on Northwood. Their default position isto make you happy, even if you don't deserve it.

I bet everybody on this Forum is wanting to know the details of your problem because, while they believe Northwood is more than fair, they would be quick to join your cause if they think you have been trulywronged.

FF1063
08-14-2009, 08:48 PM
Yes, Dave Mann out in Oregon has been a great guy to deal with. I've also been a great fan of Northwood customer service, so I won't need a lecture on that :D

Myproblem,asmany other 2005 Arctic Fox truck camper owners have been experiencing, is theseemingly never ending front cabover Filondelamination issue.

My camper has delaminated 3x already and Northwoodhas transported my camper in NY to/from Winchester, VA all three times. They had their reasons for doing it, and although I'm unhappy my camper has problems, I was happy they backed up the defect and have been trying to resolve it.

Well, no big surprise, it's delaminating again (for thefourth time)andagain needs a completefront end tear offand replacement. This time Dave Mann made no mention about the transport until I inquired, he then stated that he would check the schedule, but only after I inquired again, he responded thatI mustbring the camper to Virginia myself. I'm unable to do it,so thenext stepshould be alocal dealer repair which I'm still waiting for them to set up. I doubt any dealer will accept the responsibility of a recurring problem that theNorthwood can't seem to fix either.

I've done nothing wrong, and have been a loyal AF fan. I've written two polite letters to Ron Nash when the problem first began to repeat. I included my address, e-mail, home, work, and cell phone numbers. I never heard back from him so I have no reason topass onanything kind about him.Again, Dave Mann is a great guy, but my issue needs to get to the top management. They need to take my camper and keep it until they find the cause. I just want the camper fixed properly as the situation causes a lot of stress.

BigFoot
08-15-2009, 04:03 PM
Let's review your history.

3-11-05 DELAMINATION PROBLEM: After only 30 days of ownership, my Arctic Fox dealer confirmed today what I already discovered, The rear Filon wall is delaminating. Arctic Fox has such a good reputation. Dealer said he will call the factory to see how to proceed. I have the worst luck.

3-16-05 My camper is a new leftover 2004 990S wood framed unit, it has a manufacture date of 8/03.

4-20-05 PROBLEM SOLVED; NEW CAMPER: For those that recall my previous posts regarding my 2004 arctic Fox990 rear wall delamination problem, I thought I should post the final update - My local dealer took back my "new" 2004 990 and credited the full purchase price towards the purchase of a new 2005 AF 990.

2-22-06 LOOKING GOOD: I have had my 990 for 10 months now withonly minorissues that I could handle myself.

3-18-06 FIRSTPROBLEM: I found that my cabover nose section is gathering water underneath the curved diamond plate option. Seems to be on the outside of the Filon, I hope ! in a void between it and the diamond plate. I found this when I was doing some waxing, I could hear the watersloshing around when pushing on the aluminum. I drained a significant amount of water out the bottomby loosening the molding strip and let it dry out for quite some time. I re-sealed over everything from the roof down, covered her up and let it all cure. Had a little overnite rain, water is back. This really sucks, I called my dealer Tuesday and he has me coming in on the 28th (2 weeks !!) I called and spoke to Cody at the AF warranty deptto let them know.

5-18-06 CAMPER BACK: Picked my camper from my dealer after AF repairedmy cab over leakat the VA factory. They finished it last Thursday and it arrived at my dealer on Monday on a normal delivery schedule. The process took 5 weeks.

11-02-06 WAS A ROOF SEAM PROBLEM: I had a similar experience under warranty. I thought the diamond plate option was the cause, but it was actually a roof seam problem. It's not a good feeling watching water pour out of a screw hole, I know about that. The only way to fix it right is find the source of the leak, then reskin the front end from top to bottom. You must dry out that cabover to prevent wood rot. Water gets in quick even with a small seam hole or window seal.

4-23-07WHAT ABOUTTHE SECOND PROBLEM?: The fact is my new camperunderwenttwo major factory repairs already, both requiringthe same complete front end Filon replacement.

8-14-09WHAT ABOUTTHE THIRD PROBLEM?:My camper has delaminated 3x already and Northwoodhas transported my camper in NY to/from Winchester, VA all three times.
AND
Well, no big surprise, it's delaminating again (for thefourth time)andagain needs a completefront end tear offand replacement.

In retrieving your information, I ran into several other campers with the same problem. Maybe certain campers had an inherent problem with delamination. Click HERE (http://www.afnash.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=7228&forum_id=16&highlight=delam ination)for some pertinent information. It is apparent you are not making this up and have had a miserable experience with your camper.

Could you elaborate onthat 11-02-06WAS A ROOF SEAM PROBLEM and the MISSING PROBLEMS.

FF1063
08-15-2009, 07:07 PM
BF, Thanks for the link and timeline you laid out.Asyou can see, I've been around for a while, and hope to remain. All problemsare the same repetitive cabover Filon delamination. During factory repair #3, Ifound outthey added a beam across the roof seam, and used Eternabond sealant which I was toldshould have resolved the issue. I believe my camper was on the first run with the switch to the aluminum framing in April 2005.Northwood, through Dave Mann, has owned up to the recurring delam problem 100%, and havetried tocorrect it.

As the Filon delamination continues, warranty coveragehas never been in question. But, this will be the fourth time my campers entire front end is to be stripped off and replaced.

The process is still a bitfrustrating,and I feel they need to take it wherever they need to fix this recurring problem and should not now transfer thatburden to me, even if it's back to Oregon where they built it. What's the point of me bringing it to Virginia when they have already brought it there 3x. I don't live in Virginia.

For those that feel a simple phone call resolves all issues with Northwood,I'll tell you I've spoken to Dave so many times in the past, probably more than anyone reading this thread, always nice and always pleasant on both sides. But, IMO, someone else seems to directinghim nowand they have all of my contact information. That's thecause of my first post in this thread.

I e-mailed Dave last week and askedhim to reconsider the transporter for #4, or to have it repaired locally. I have not rec'd a response yet, maybe he's out on vacation. I hope he can make things right.

I'm kind of stuck here, so it would be great if someone could speakto Ron Nashon my behalf.

Thanks

Nash5r
08-16-2009, 09:28 AM
FF1063 wrote:
... I believe my camper was on the first run with the switch to the aluminum framing in April 2005. ...

My 5th wheel was delivered to me in March 2005 and was one of the first aluminum framed 27-5Ls. At that time Northwood had been building all of the truck campers with aluminum frames for at least a year or two if my memory is correct. Sorry about your problems and it may be related to the switch to aluminum but I think they had some experience by then -- although maybe not enough.

ArcticFoxCats
08-16-2009, 04:08 PM
Nash5r wrote:
...At that time Northwood had been building all of the truck campers with aluminum frames for at least a year or two if my memory is correct. Sorry about your problems and it may be related to the switch to aluminum but I think they had some experience by then -- although maybe not enough.


Having noted this, I believe we also need to note thatNash5r's unit was probablyLaGrande Plant built, whereas FF1063's camper probably was a Virginia Plant built unit.

After one has had the Virginia Plant "re-do" the area with the delamination so many times, I too would vote for LaGrande to permanently "fix it". There seems to be "something in the water" with the VA Plant and delamination problems, eh. (Not ALL delamination problems, of course.)

I rest my case. Just my $.02/worth, and experience. :?

Nash5r
08-16-2009, 04:23 PM
ArcticFoxCats wrote:
...Having noted this, I believe we also need to note thatNash5r's unit was probablyLaGrande Plant built, whereas FF1063's camper probably was a Virginia Plant built unit. ...


Good point -- never thought about the possibility that the other plant didn't switch to aluminum at the same time!

FF1063
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the support. My camper was built in Oregon.

I figured my1st re-skin fix was just bad luck, it happens. But, after the 2nd re-skin, I spoke to John Cann in VA. I did not feelhe did any analysis as to why it required a 2nd repair.

After the third fix, I spoke to Dave Partlow in VA. He told me he screwed in a wood stripto widen the frame area at the roof seal, and along with Eternabond, that should solve the problem. I was relieved. He also told me I should cover the camper during winter storage to keep water off the roof. Strange advice I thought, but I had enough with leaks so I had the camper under a carport. Maybe he knew something I did not?

Iread a postthat Northwood seemed to think covering the camper was causing delams all over with many others? I'm thinking a tight cover, maybe in the Arizona heat? But it's cold in NY, we just hit our first 90 degree day last week! That was the first question Dave Mann asked me, but he did not elaborate any further.

The former Winchester plant is now just a 2 man operationlead by Bruce that is used for repairing campers. I believe they are still Northwood employees. I'm told they will continue the work until the empty plant is sold. I did not get any indication fromBruce that a 4th re-skin would raise any red flagswith Northwood management.

I'm not sure if I statedit previously, but I have given up trying to contact Ron Nash. I thought I would be the type of customer he wouldwant to speak with. No hard feelings, just need my camper fixed.

FF1063
08-18-2009, 07:28 PM
Got an e-mail reponse today only after I sent it again. The response wasNorthwood will only warrantyrepair the camper in Virginia. They will not pay their local dealer to perform the repair.They will not delivery the camper. I'm not happy with this arrangement, but they are in chargefor now.........

FF1063
01-14-2010, 09:45 AM
Just passing on an update, It appears the Northwood Winchester, VA plant is actually winding down to close their "Warranty" service door for good. I've been in contact with Oregon and spoke toBruce in VA yesterday to make sure they keep me in the que before the end. I'll call again in two weeks to figure outa schedule for me to deliver mycamper.

Adam
01-14-2010, 05:48 PM
:)Thanks for letting all the members know. Sounds like anyone from the east side of the states had better get their units in there in the next 14 days!After that...................Scenic drive to Oregon????:shock:;)

vsop
01-19-2010, 11:09 AM
FF1063 wrote:
Got an e-mail reponse today only after I sent it again. The response wasNorthwood will only warrantyrepair the camper in Virginia. They will not pay their local dealer to perform the repair.They will not delivery the camper. I'm not happy with this arrangement, but they are in chargefor now.........



Have you checked to see if there are "Lemon Laws" in your state? It seems this is a perfect case to apply one, I had a similar experience, but an accident totaled my Nash lemon, so problem resolved, NorthWood was off the hook but I still was out a lot of money to replace the trailer. IMHO the next level for you isn't in the company but in the legal system.
good luck!

BigFoot
01-19-2010, 01:38 PM
vsop wrote:

Have you checked to see if there are "Lemon Laws" in your state? It seems this is a perfect case to apply one, I had a similar experience, but an accident totaled my Nash lemon, so problem resolved, NorthWood was off the hook but I still was out a lot of money to replace the trailer. IMHO the next level for you isn't in the company but in the legal system.
good luck!



I have the greatest respect for Northwood but sometimes even the best of companies "loose interest" in fulfilling their obligations under warranty.

If you honestly feel that you are getting the run-around, and have the paper-work to back it up, you should look for an attorney that has enough faith in your case to take iton a contingency basis. Then he will have his heart in it.

WHAT DOES THE LAW COVER?

The “federal lemon law” covers your RV. Do not be dissuaded by your dealer, or others telling you your RV’s problems are too small to be of any consequence. As you know, little problems can add up, causing your RV to spend many days in the repair shop.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that provides protection to buyers of products that cost $25 or more and come with a written warranty. This law applies to any product you buy that does not perform as it should, including mobile homes and travel trailers. The Magnuson-Moss statute gives consumers considerable rights in dealing with manufacturers of lemon recreational vehicles by guaranteeing minimum repair performance requirements and also by providing for disclosure of warranties before purchase.

One of the Act's purposes is to ensure repairs are performed within a reasonable period of time. If a product is covered by a written warranty, and any part of the product (or the product itself) is defective and cannot be fixed after a reasonable opportunity, the warrantor must permit the buyer either a refund or replacement or provide the buyer with monetary damages as compensation for the warrantor's failure to perform.

Both major and minor defects and conditions are covered under the Act. For example, although defects or conditions that diminish your ability to use the RV as intended are almost certainly actionable, a number of relatively minor defects whose cumulative total adds up to a substantial impairment may also entitle you to monetary relief. Courts have found warranty breaches to occur after as little as two or three unsuccessful repair attempts to a cure a particular defect and where there have been six to eight repairs to the product as a whole.

A consumer may pursue legal action in any court of general jurisdiction in the United States to enforce his rights under the Magnuson-Moss Act. Attorney's fees based on actual time spent will be covered if the consumer prevails. This particular condition puts quite a bit of financial pressure on the manufacturer to settle consumer disputes with minimal court involvement.

WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I THINK MY RV IS A LEMON?

Make certain you keep good records of all actions you take to your problem, including repair orders to date, the bill of sale, warranty information, manufacturer supplied manuals that came with your motor home. Document all phone calls in writing. A “paper trail” can be used to back up your claim, and will provide confirmation of all repair attempts and the total amount of time your RV has spent out of service.

It is best to contact an attorney who can advise you on how to proceed should you suspect your RV might be a lemon. If you submit your lemon RV information via the form on this website, we will review it at no cost to you.

CLICK HERE (http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/lemon-RV.htm)

FF1063
01-19-2010, 06:52 PM
Thanks for the info, but pursuing this outside of Northwood, or the forum is not in my best interest.Dave Mann hasbeen handling it as a defect under warranty, so I deal with it.

To quote Doug Karr of Northwood from his recent Truck Camper Magazine interview:

"Nash’s philosophy is that if there is ever anything wrong with a Northwood product, we’re going to fix it. We stand behind our products. We tell that to people straight up"

I wish Doug could talk to me straight up.I live in New York, so I don't know what they expect me to do when Winchester, VA closes.Theytried 3x to stop/fix the problem,each time tearing the complete front end off and replacing.They shouldbite the bullet, get it back to Oregon, anddo whatever it takes to get it right.
Thanks for following my thread

vsop
01-20-2010, 01:32 PM
FF1063 wrote:
Thanks for the info, but pursuing this outside of Northwood, or the forum is not in my best interest.Dave Mann hasbeen handling it as a defect under warranty, so I deal with it.
>snip<
Thanks for following my thread

I hope you understand that at this point NorthWood will base their decisions on what they think your reaction will be, I left a meeting with Ron and Cody, laid my case on the table, and said I would trust them to do what's right, I never heard from them after that. Like you, I have so many years left, I don't want to waste any of it in a courthouse.

FF1063
04-28-2010, 09:56 AM
I thought it would be good to followup on my original post with an update:

I had been in contact with Bruce Barnes in Winchester, VA. Although I was planning on getting the camper to him in time before they closed up shop, I missed my opportunity. As Bruce told me, he did try to get me on my cell, but I missed the voicemail. I e-mailed Northwood in Oregon to see if they could send the repair material with a shipment to the local AF dealer where I could pick it up and do the re-skin myself. They made it even easier for me, they shipped the material to my house via FedEx, 280 lbs of crated Filon.

I'm surely grateful to Dave Mann and crew in Oregon. They could have turned their back on me, but they did not. Just wanted those that haveread this thread in the past to seewhat they have done for me to back upan original warranty issue. Had I never had any issues, I never would have known much about Northwood as a company. I'm glad I own an Arctic Fox camper, and not one of their competitors.

Happy Camping !