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kayakmike
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#1 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 04:36 |
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I had the bedroom slide wall replaced at the factory last year for delamination and now having similar problems at the lower front of each siewall. (both sides).
Anyone seeing or have had similar issues?
I traced the bulge with a crayon as it was difficult to see in photo.
Attached Image (viewed 297 times):
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"Not all who wander are lost"
08 AF 29-5T / 09 Dodge 2500 4x4, Cummins 6.7 shortbed. Curt slider hitch, Protegy controller
AM Solar, Prosine 2.0, AGM's
Honda CT 110 and Saki the wonder cat
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Nash5r
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#2 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 16:43 |
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I haven't had any delamination on my 27-5L but the 2 ends of your crayon marks are almost exactly the end points of the vertical and horizontal joints where I have had to recaulk mine 2 or 3 times in the 5 years I've owned it. I'm apparently getting a very minor bit of flexing on the front at that side and the caulking develops small cracks there. I've also had to recaulk on the roof at that front corner where the rubber roof meets the front cap and that side wall. On the opposite side of the front I haven't had to touch the original caulk which is still in good shape. On the 27-5L the side that I have had to recaulk is the wardrobe slide side but in my case I don't think the slide has anything to do with it.
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2005 Arctic Fox 27 5L
Avatar: Deschutes National Forest near Sisters, OR
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BigFoot
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#3 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 18:48 |
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First of all, you are not alone. A search of the Internet will provide you with many instances of delamination and it sure isn't confined to any specific brands.
Next, here is an article that lists some unusual causes of delamination. But the bottom line is:
In the majority of cases delamination occurs when moisture gets into the wall and compromises the adhesive holding the RV laminated walls together. The fiberglass layer starts to separate from the rest of the layers of the wall.
So a good start towards eliminating delamination at the factory level would be to use a better method of bonding. The March, 2003, issue of RV News reported the following:
Filon® Now Using Corona Treatment
Kemlite Company Inc., a Crane Co. Company, announces that corona treating equipment has been added to the Jonesboro, Arkansas, facility where Filon® RV panels are produced. All Filon panels will now come standard with corona treatment during the production process.
Corona treatment is a method of electrically treating the backside of Filon panels to provide a significantly lower surface tension which results in a stronger lamination bond between the Filon panel and substrate. The benefits of corona treatment to customers include increased bonding strength, increased bonding efficiency, and reduced delamination warranty expense. (my emphasis)
Northwood was using the corona-treated Filon since at least 2006:
"We use top grade corona treated Filon in our side walls. The Filon is a single continuous sheet so there are no seams. Our one piece outer skin provides an extremely strong, leak resistant wall system."
Even with the factory using the best available materials and members providing reasonable maintenance, we still have delamination so something new must be required.
Any ideas?
____________________
2005 AF 22H with Onan GenSet and Electric Jack.
Local security provided by S&W Classic in .44 Magnum.
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4 Off Road and Tow Package
Equal-i-zer and Prodigy.
Local and trail security provided by Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
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kramden
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#4 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 22:31 |
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Hi, when you press on the bulge you have marked out, does it feel soft or still hard ?
Kevin
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2007 Arctic Fox 26 5C Fifth Wheel
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Laramie
5.9 HO Cummins 3.73 Rear
Cattz Rollmaster Hitch
"Girshwin's Ella Fitzhound" on board
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kayakmike
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#5 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 23:41 |
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Thanks for the Filon info.
The bulge is quite firm. I came from a boatbulding background and have worked with fiberglass for years and this is different from any of my past experience.
I also have a few areas on the other side (much smaller) but they are also firm and have been there for 1.5 years without growing.
The pic I sent has just occurred in the last several months to my knowledge.
____________________
"Not all who wander are lost"
08 AF 29-5T / 09 Dodge 2500 4x4, Cummins 6.7 shortbed. Curt slider hitch, Protegy controller
AM Solar, Prosine 2.0, AGM's
Honda CT 110 and Saki the wonder cat
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Shane
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#6 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 00:22 |
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| I certainly have no expertise in this sort of problem. However, it has been my understanding that delamination is often associated with flexing of the frame. So far, there's no hint of this on our 27-5L. But we do not have a bedroom slide, and I am wondering whether that has anything to do with the integrity of the bedroom sidewalls.
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Shane and Patty
Babe the Brittany
2003, 27-5L AF
Chevy '07 3500 Dooley 4X4 LT3, Crew Cab, D/A
Two Honda Eu 2000
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DesertFox1
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#7 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 04:57 |
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I wonder if there's been some water intrusion through that front marker light.
Pop the lens and see if it looks like water has gotten in there.
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Doug
09 Chevy Dooley D/A LTZ
10 AF811
05 Aveo (DD)
04 Jeep Rubicon
02 Suzuki DR-Z400S
92 Wells Cargo toy box
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BigFoot
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#8 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 05:11 |
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Shane wrote: However, it has been my understanding that delamination is often associated with flexing of the frame. So far, there's no hint of this on our 27-5L. But we do not have a bedroom slide, and I am wondering whether that has anything to do with the integrity of the bedroom sidewalls.
Shane might be on to something. I only found one instance addressing this possibility and it states:
If you cut a large hole in any box there is a significant negative effect on the design integrity and strength. I have seen some slideout models where the sidewalls have sagged and the outside skin has delaminated or cracked because of the flexing at the critical corner points.
You are free to read this article by Bob Gummersall, RVers Online Chief Techical Advisor. But in the interest of not being called a bomb thrower, be warned that the article is really about the pros and cons of slides in motorhomes. CLICK
____________________
2005 AF 22H with Onan GenSet and Electric Jack.
Local security provided by S&W Classic in .44 Magnum.
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4 Off Road and Tow Package
Equal-i-zer and Prodigy.
Local and trail security provided by Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
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FF1063
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#9 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 14:51 |
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| My experiences with delamination always involve water getting in and getting soaked up by the luan / cardboard backing that the Filon is glued to. Since water travels downward and gathers at the lowest point, and your delam seems to be at the lowest pint, my guess is that yours is moisture related. It only takes one leak, one time to cause the delamanination. I would start checking the top of the camper at the roof seam for any signs of seal damage as it would be the highest point, then work down checking the corner moulding strips.
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98 Ram 3500 CTD 12V / 05 Arctic Fox 990
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Vitsol
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#10 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 18:06 |
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I've been reading the posts about delamination with great interest. The panel under the 'nose' of my 2002 / 24-5N has suffered some sagging along the bottom outside edges and delamination in other spots on the bottom. I'm not sure just when the problems began but suspect it was some 4 years ago, when the unit was already 4 years old. Since it is an older unit I opted to make relatively crude but inexpensive repairs myself. I've screwed metal strips (3 ft aluminum threshhold pieces from Home Depot) up into the plywood above the Filon. I also ran a long bolt right up through the bottom of the nose into the space under the bed in order to pull up a badly sagging area.These fixes have done the job for the past 3 years. Now I'm going to run another bolt or two up near the side. OK, kinda crude and nothing to brag about, but it all seems to work.
My question is about drying out the space between the inside floor and outer surface of the bottom. Wish I had a detailed drawing of how the nose was put together, but i don't and will have to test drill and probe through the inside floor to find a place to insert a hairdryer. Any suggestions about this ? Will one hole do the job or is the space an eggcrate requiring more holes? Thx in advance,
Allen
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